| XFX Radeon R7950 Black Edition Video Card |  |
| Reviews - Featured Reviews: Video Cards | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Written by David Ramsey | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Tuesday, 31 January 2012 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Page 9 of 18
DX11: Batman: Arkham CityIf there was ever a game that showcased the growing gap between game consoles and high-end gaming PCs, Batman: Arkham City is it. In this dystopian near-future, part of Gotham City has been walled off as an enclave for criminals (rather like Escape from New York). It's a 3d-person action game that adheres to story line previously set forth in Batman: Arkham Asylum, and is based on an updated Unreal Engine 3 game engine. Batman: Arkham City is a DirectX 11 title that uses multi-threaded rendering to produce life-like tessellation effects. One annoyance with the game is that all game settings must be made through a hidden application called "BMLauncher". Once you've made your settings, though, an in-game benchmark provides the feedback you'll need to tune your system's performance.
The AMD Radeon graphics cards are at a disadvantage here, since, like Arkham Asylum, Arkham City is a showcase of PhysX effects, which can be directly accelerated by NVIDIA cards but not by AMD cards. Some might argue that turning PhysX off would provide a fairer comparison, but the extensive PhysX effects are such in integral part of the game I decided to leave them on. In this case, the CPU provides PhysX computations, and while the Intel Core i7-3960X processor is a best-case example, I'd expect similar performance from a 2500K or 2600K, since the per-core performance of these CPUs is similar to that of the 3960X. Note that the dual-GPU Radeon HD 6990 turns in the same frame rates as the 6970. This is almost certainly because AMD doesn't have a CrossFireX profile for this new game, thus the card runs in single-GPU mode. But the Tahiti-core cards are a solid 36% faster than the previous-generation cards, and are solidly playable frame rates even with PhysX enabled. That's impressive. Cost Analysis: Arkham City (1920x1200)Test Summary: Although the HD 7970 is at a disadvantage here with its lack of PhysX support, it still turns in very playable frame rates. Oddly, the overclocked score is virtually identical to the stock clocked score.
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Comments
Even games that are console ports use higher definition models and textures for the PC versions, and many games still don't exist in console versions...
Just because they add a few hd texture doesnt make the gameplay anybetter. Is just aesthetic and to be honest, even without those, they still look great on a 1080p display using the consoles.
The point of the matter is that this card is way too expensive to justify it. I agree with hcf regarding the Crysis 1 times where it even became a model of " but can it run crysis" because it was a product for PC. Like i said, There is no point in getting these expensive cards or even running crossfire or sli because of the ports that we now enjoy.
Well, sure. It depends on the individual, of course, but many serious gamers obsess over pixel-level detail and can easily see when GPU-intensive features like SSAO are turned on. More obviously, your card can't perform tesselation, so many modern games will look "flat".
But if you're happy with it, there's certainly no reason to go out and drop $500 on a 7950. But much cheaper cards like the GTX 560 series would still improve your gameplay experience.
When i saw that first video of BF3, remember, that game looked amazing. The pre release video. I said, holy # i am going to drop 3K on a new system just for that.
Well, the beta comes out and i can play it just as good...ive seen the game on ultra high settings and it does not look like that video AT ALL.
I have one of those top end cards and I crank everything to max.
BTW - it makes a big difference in game play if your system is smoking fast. No, you don't need to spend $3,000.00 - but an i3/2100 a decent sandy bridge board, some cheap ddr3, and a good video card will do it.
You already have a system - 600-800 bucks would get you a smoking modern gamer player - and you'd definitely change your tune then.
I'll watch the video and take it back if need be if you provide the link.
There are lots of games out there and deciding which ones to use for benchmarks is up to the judgement of the reviewer. When you write your own reviews, feel free to include whatever games you wish.
Ultra high fps is not needed to kill people. You really care about grass? you care about more shadows that actually hinders you when in jungle because of how camouflage works in the game ?
The point is that it does not justify the price when the PS3 version and the Xbox version run the same and it surely looks the same on a 1080p display. Yeah its less people, but thats only due to the networking limitations on consoles. The next Gen consoles are going to make our PCs look like #. They will start to make games for Tablets then. port it over to the pc and call it a day
I think you are mixing visual fidelity with "game quality"... they are comparable as apples & oranges...
visual fidelity just adds immersion, doesn't change the game mechanics.
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You should read that Hexus article on WHY consoles can have decent graphics on crappy chips and on a PC it takes a lot more work - it has to do with the way calls are made with DX9+ versions...
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In any case you are sorely mistaken no console looks as good as PC today.
You are just clinging to your formerly $600 card and unwilling to bone up the $ to keep up on PC.
That's ok, your call, but the whining excuses are just that - excuses and incorrect ones.
There's not a card out today powerful enough for a range of what you whine are ported PC games - they fail in fps strength and eye candy - on AMD you have to turn down MSAA to 2X or zero - you won't be turning on PhysX, you won't be running high and highest tessellation.
The real truth is even the 7970 lacks enough power on the now common 1920x1050 common flat panels. It's not enough guy.
I'm sorry your attitude frankly stinks to the point of disinformation and I'm sorry it's become a common meme or theme - BECAUSE IT IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.
But boy there are a lot of you - feel good you have plenty of company, plenty of sour puss whining company.
Get a paper route and in a few months you'll have plenty to have a top tier smoker of a system - it's not that much money - do it reasonable
core i3 2100 $125 $300 vid, $100 mboard $50 ram $100 ssd
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That's $675 to get to nearly the top of all performance rungs - and certainly enough to bury your $600+ release price 8800GTX
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If you don't like the cost, fine, but don't feed me those sorry lies in the whines please - it's time this repeated pop culture theme whine be put to rest it is a LIE.
Prices for DDR3 Memory and SSD's has remained competitive, but how long will it remain so?
Hard disk prices aside, you can build a system that would crush the very best possible a few years ago for a lot less money than those older machines cost. As long as you don't need the very top end parts, I think prices are at historic lows.
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There ! Howsa bout it amd fanboys!!?? DON'T YOU WISH AMD HAD A SET TOO ?
They don't - they whine and bullet physics is freaking nowhere ...
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Now amd had to redo their MLAA for a fps cheat on the 79xx-- LOL - AND IT SUCKS WORSE THAN FXAA ANYWAY - even though it doesn't blur huds anymore like it did foreva cause amd sucks sucks suck suck suck.
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Dear God, thank you for one company that isn't filled and followed by whining sour pussed crybabies, for one company that doesn't whine and moan in every PR stunt to stir up hate for the superior competition, BUT INSTEAD GOES THE DRAWING BOARD AND CRANKS OUT FXAA !
THANK YOU GOD THAT ONE COMPANY IS NOT A CRYBABY WHINING SACK OF CRAP!
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GOD!!!!! will you people ever stop ? ( I suspect not )
and i love to see AMD putting some tough competition this time, It is always good for the end users ... Both new releases by AMD are really interesting and are very much capable ... well done AMD !!!
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You cannot take super supreme extreme massive rig and compare it to plain vanilla - then whine about pricing.
I want to know what the top end decked out x360 costs with all the addons... OH FREAK IT'S TWO GRAND !
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lol-
KISS IT MAN...no do not
NVIDIA says this is because they can't guarantee the operation of PhysX unless the primary card is an NVIDIA card, but that's just bull#.
AMD won't pay to use something that cost 100 million to develop.
AMD fgans far and wide scream I hate PhysX and it sucks for the 2 games it means nothing to that it is used on.
So really, who gives a damn that AMD and their sick child fans are so raging mad - they won't pay up for tech, they slam the competition that won't hand it to them for free, then after ripping that same comp in public for endless months of shrieking terror they are surprised when they get their crap card hack disabled.
IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT. THEY DESERVE IT, AND DESERVED IT.
NOW PAY UP YOU CRYBABIES, OR GET US BULLET PHYSICS AND IT BETTER BE NON PROPRIETARY, IT BETTER RUN FOR FREE ON NVIDIA CARDS AND YOU BETTER BE SPENDING LOTS OF YOUR AMD $$$ TO GET IT IN TWO CRAPPY GAMES...
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Ok, thanks I feel better. I am sorry Nvidia didn't punch amd in the kisser and say "if our physx sucks so bad, and you don't want it, then you've got your wish ! "
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Way to go - if all the little crybabies had AN OUNCE of honesty in their bones they would have asked their king god amd TO PAY A FEW BUCKS FOR PHYSX.... OR PAY NVIDIA HALF THE DEVELOPEMENT COSTS ALREADY ACCRUED.
I GUES AMD IS A LEECH WELFARE CRYBABY COMPANY ! SO ARE ALL IT'S FANS!( well most of em cause even ones who didn't agree never shut up the little terrorists )
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PAY FOR WHAT YOU WANT FOR FREE DAVE RAMSEY ! PAY UP !
That's just stupid: it's like having your anti-lock brakes disabled if you buy non-Ford tires or something.
The industry doesn't exist in a bubble in your computer - there's a lot more at stake than your personal preference for extra graphics in your machine.
The competitors decided they would go on a PR bash campaign, and fight the future - and blame it all on the competition, and demand to pay nothing, while incurring costs for Nvidia for porting, and then went about destroying their public image.
A million IDIOTS bought it.
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Since what you buy is connected not just to your rig but to a worldwide competition, make your choice... you saw what amd fanboys did - you saw what Richard Huddy of AMD did...
You support THAT CRAP ? - keep your amd card in and suck it up.
Nvidia is PUNISHING you. Now pull that rooster card out or live with it or HACK IT.
FACE REALITY that's what's going on and playing a 3rd grader "it's stupid" is PLAYING LIKE YOU ARE A BLIND FOOL.
Are you that stupid Dave ?
I certainly don't think so - so stop pretending you are.
But you haven't explained why NVIDIA should disable PhysX on their cards if there's an AMD card in the system. I bought the NVIDIA card. Why aren't I entitled to its full capabilities?
Nvidia paid AGEIA. Nvidia spent a hundred million on dev.
PAY UP - that means BUY WHAT YOU NEED TO USE IT - YOU NEED TO BUY NVIDIA TO USE IT.
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It's SAD you aren't aware of AMD's PR campaign.
Check Hexus, dude.
I'm sorry, really, that you don't have a clue, and the brainwash crew owns you. Really, that is so astounding.
" But you haven't explained why NVIDIA should disable PhysX on their cards if there's an AMD card in the system. "
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If you don't get it yet, you never will. You called Nvidia a liar when they told you it is a software issue- it is their lawsuit exposure - okay so Nvidia lied their tokus off to you...let's give you that - they have no costs now or ever when the crappy amd radeon drivers blow away a systems capability to stably run PhysX - let's give you that one, that their vbendor partners would have no tech support over AMD cards ***** it all up - let's give you that one...
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Guess what's left Dave ?
AMD went on a PAID PR to demand nvidia open source PhysX, then cried foul and claimed Nvidia is evil and amd would never do such a thing developing proprietary tech... I guess you lived under a cave at the time and cannot even gauge your own commentary and others in this thread - who've with less said so. Missed that too right ? LOL wow.
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So in any case - since AMD wasn't going to play fair, wasn't going to cooperate, went on a smear campaign, and riled up it little minions totally on purpose and all we sentient beings watched it happen - NVidia did what it had to do...
I _did_ buy NVIDIA. I'm hardly an AMD fanboy: my primary gaming system runs two GTX 580s in SLI.
And they're cards I bought myself, not review samples. I don't understand why plugging in an ATI card for should disable PhysX. And you haven't given me any good reasons why it should other than "That's the way NVIDIA wants it."
(We know they're probably lying about the undefined technical issues since there are hacks out there that re-enable PhysX with an AMD card in the system, and they work just fine.)
NVIDIA claims PhysX is an open API that anyone can write to, and that they'll even help (well, they used to claim this. Haven't seen it in some years). I can't find anything about AMD ever demanding that NVIDIA make PhysX open source...can you provide a link?
NGOHQ David - the guy there wrote the PORT for PhysX to AMD cards - and as he tells, NVIDIA supported his work and sent several engineers to assist him - and he was successful. He also claims - says - that AMD refused to work with him, and PURPOSEFULLY BROKE the PhysX he ported to their cards in their next driver release.
It's all public information man.
What you need to understand is how the relationship between industry rivals works in the real world. It involves LAWS, and lawsuits ion many cases, and especially between the parties in question - and we can add in Intel and Microsoft...
What's going on, is what I tried in vain to explain to you, that you do not want to acknowledge. Let me try harder....
PhysX, with an AMD card as main, would by default be modifying screen output in the games - and would be related to the stability of the competing card in question,as well as it's own.
Someone has to write those drivers - and someone has to constantly update those drivers, and test those drivers.
NVidia does not have - by law, all the hooks or code secrets for AMD drivers - and as far as I understand it, is not on legal ground without AMD permission and cooperation.
I mentioned the lawsuit issue, and assumed you had the sense and back round knowledge to understand...
Why you will say, was it then working for some time ?
Well, that's also how industry works - things are done, and until the legal departments issue cease and desist notices, things can happen for a time period that do not go on forever...
As far as AMD's PR Richard Huddy and Nvidia's PR - they both publicly claimed certain things - (this is separate from the NGOHQ work Nvidia supported and AMD put a stop to) both claimed NVIDIA has repeatedly offered PhysX for a price to AMD. Huddy from AMD said yes it has happened, and claimed, that Nvidia was not really serious. Nvidia claims AMD does not want to pay - which coincides with Huddy's demand for PhysX going open source...( let's face it - must not be that hard to make 1 driver work on 1 amd driver set, the guy at NGOHQ did it with help from 2 NV engineers ) ....
It works 100% for AMD by destroying PhysX, turning the public against Nvidia, and placing all the blame on them - the PR lines are far cheaper than paying a fair amount for PhysX and paying for the coding for the monthly driver releases, and paying Nvidia in some joint agreement on PhysX driver releases.
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So much more detail can be gone into concerning the legalities, but the bottom line is Nvidia can't just do it - and their attempt for FORCE AMD into some deal with NGOHQ assistance was crushed by AMD...
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AMD much prefers the public to be disgruntled, to hate Nvidia, to scream PhysX sucks, to not pay a dime to work with game developers to implement it, and to take the HUGE PR VICTORY people like you give them.
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Nvidia's statement on the matter, if you read it, points out the legal problems (in corporate speak one could complain), but anyone with common knowledge on the matter knows what's going on.
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Same type of thing happened with Batman AA - Nvidia did the work, spent the money, and AMD wanted a PR campaign victory - demanded it all for free and said "cooperation is key!" and the fools of the world bought it.
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AMD is near bankrupt - maybe if their PR was nice, and their rabid fan base wasn't twisted into NV hatred, maybe NV would do their video card division a solid for free... maybe they do all the time and we don't hear about that...
But that's the bottom line - Nvidia can no longer just let AMD's card work with their PhysX - AMD could sue them, vendors could sue them, end users could sue them - they don't have permission - and are NOT going to spend the money upkeeping drivers for AMD and are likely to be absolutely legally banned from that too.
When AGEIA cards were still in use drivers were there that worked with AMD... that's the nature of an independent company.
What AMD fans SHOULD BE grateful for and are not- is the fact that NVIDIA NEVER hard coded PhysX into their proceeding chip lineups and really made it completely proprietary at some silicon level... we know it runs on amd because of NGOHQ.
Oh yes the guys name there is ERAN, I just recalled.
Then use your Nvidia cards. You're making a problem you claim you don't have.
You also completely spun what I said, because of your rose colored glasses. YOU claim it's because Nvidia wants it that way, not me. YOU claim it's because they're liars, not me.
I claim it's because AMD WON'T PAY - and in fact, that's the way THEY want it.
Anyone with a lick of business sense, any experience knows it's true.
NVidia would love nothing more than for the entire video card and mobile handset world to adopt PhysX - they would profit handsomely.
You claimed something about open source this or that- but that's another one of those pop culture spews that has very little sense in reality - it means to the duped idiot "free" - but PhysX IS NOT FREE.
It's like linux or flavors of the same, let's say - MANY builds sell for many millions of dollars all the time - but the "word in stupidville" is "it's open source".
Not only would they not pay, not only did they spread "physx sucks" - they demanded an open port source for free.... and all their little minions loved it - all the little amd fans repeat it...
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ITS IN THIS THREAD.
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So man up - take out your AMD card, sell it, and buy Nvidia for primary and secondary PERIOD. Or, go buy amd - go ahead - Nvidia invites you to. Please do. In fact if you cannot understand, you ought to buy only AMD. And you don't get it.
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PS - amd has no competing physics - bullet doesn't compete (as our little retard saying goes) .
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That's what happens in the big bad world Dave - companies compete - they make decisions based upon competitions misdeeds, do they not ?
YES.
Time to grow up and face reality.
AMD and their cards do not get a pass from Nvidia - you're supporting AMD, you're supporting the problem - so NVIDIA makes you choose - MAN UP - you're not getting PhysX "with amd" for free. YOU WILL PAY NVIDIA. NO YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY. NO GUARANTEE OF COMPATIBILITY WITH RADEON - SORRY DAVE ! GROW UP.
PS2 - NO AGREEMENT IS MADE BY EITHER OF THE BIG TWO THAT FUTURE DRIVERS WILL CARRY ALL FEATURES FORWARD FOREVER.
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You're part of the "influential" reviewers, and I see exactly "what your influence is".
I guarantee when NVidia reps look at it like I have here - the answr is "PULL YOUR AND CARD IF YOU WANT PHYSX - IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM GO WHINE TO AMD WHO WON'T PAY UP".
None of us live in the bubble of stupidity and singularity your excuse or cry foul against "stupid Nvidia who disabled the brakes" demands.